Gawkowski: whoever is against KSC commits digital high treason

- The introduction of this act is in Poland's interest - says Deputy Prime Minister Krzysztof Gawkowski about the National Cybersecurity System. The government is to deal with the act before the summer. However, there is still no agreement on its shape, the issue of so-called high-risk suppliers is controversial. - If someone is against the KSC in the version that we are doing, I think they are committing digital high treason - the politician assesses.

• On the National Cybersecurity System: "many ministers continue to comment that there should be no high-risk suppliers in this project. I believe that such a solution must be in place, because it is a guarantee of Poland's security."
• On the semiconductor limit : - The American administration is conducting consultations on this matter until mid-May. So far, we have sent all the information they expected.
• On the European regulation of CSAM: - As the presidency, we put on the table a proposal for a new approach - excluding preventive scanning of communicators. We are building an alliance around this proposal.
• On the digital tax : - The most important thing is that the Prime Minister said clearly: work, you have the green light to talk about it. [...] Minister Domański said on the first day that he was skeptical, and on the second day he already said that we need to work.
• About the cloud: Polish business should be supported so that it can participate in the strategic component of cloud services. Let's also remember that there is data that should not be kept outside Poland or Europe.
• Deputy Prime Minister Krzysztof Gawkowski will be a guest at EEC 2025 in Katowice, which takes place on April 23-25. Registration for the event is still open.

Mr. Prime Minister, what leftist things have you done in digitization?

- Many of the activities are simply pro-development, so not all digitalization has a political color.

I'm asking because even my party colleagues told WP.pl that you are pursuing too little of the leftist agenda compared to, for example, Agnieszka Dziemianowicz-Bąk.

- I think we're very much pursuing a leftist agenda. In my opinion, it's related to technorealism, which is an approach that assumes technology is a solution to problems, not an end in itself.

And what technorealistic thing has happened here in the last year?

- A specific thing is, for example, thinking about a digital tax. We want to introduce solutions that will give the Polish budget more money. A specific thing is filling in the blank spots, thanks to which people will have fast internet at home - and this is equalizing social opportunities. A specific thing is changing the approach to handing out electronic equipment.

PiS gave laptops to students, but without the tools to complement them. We assume the transfer of equipment and educational programs to schools - this is real support, not pure handouts. All children will use this equipment, all will have equal access to it, to improve their skills.

Only PiS – at the level of declarations – also wanted every child to be able to benefit. By giving a laptop to all fourth-graders in turn.

- They thought through the prism of support, and we through the prism of social concern, i.e. equal opportunities in access to technology. If we give a child a laptop and then say "do whatever you want with it", there is no concern there at all.

What programs will be on the laptops you will provide?

- By the end of May, Minister Nowacka and I will present the entire program. We will do it in the post-election period, so as not to be part of the presidential campaign.

Let's move on. A digital tax is also an idea that the right-wing government has been thinking about.

- He thought, but he fell.

You won't fall over?

- No, because it is also a certain response to the change in the geopolitical thinking of the United States and the European Union, the best example of which are Ursula von der Leyen's recent announcements regarding such a tax

How much should Google pay?

- We are taking a pragmatic approach to this. I will not say today who should pay and how much, but we have ordered analyses that will show models and forecasted budget revenues at specific rates . We have already met with people interested in the topic - opponents and supporters of this solution. At the turn of April and May, we will meet with the market again, this time in a wider group, and before the holidays we will hold a public debate on this topic. Later, we will write legislation, consulting with other government agencies, including the Ministry of Finance.

“Other government agencies” have not yet expressed enthusiasm.

- Some are afraid, others are rooting for it. It's like that in the government with every project.

Who's afraid?

- For me, the most important thing is that the prime minister said clearly: work, you have the green light to talk about it . I will present specific proposals and this will be the topic of conversation.

Minister Domański is losing?

- Minister Domański said on the first day that he was skeptical, and on the second day he said that we need to work. As deputy prime minister, I am also there to help other ministers, to inspire them on how to collect money for the budget.

Is the government concerned about the US reaction?

- I think that this particular American administration can understand the business needs of other countries. Because in reality, the digital tax is a need for Poland to earn money from companies that generate billions in revenue here.

The business need of the US is for its companies to colonize other markets. And this is what Donald Trump seems to have explicitly promised to the tech giants.

- I am not afraid of the American market and the American administration, in Poland the law is written in Polish letters. I will meet with US representatives soon and I will speak directly about why we are talking about this tax in Poland and why it is important for Poland.

In my opinion, the digital tax is dignified for the state. We must take into account that for years various large companies have been making money on Poland, introducing their services under the cover of doing something for free, thus creating monopolies that later bring in huge profits. If I were to say what the Minister of Digital Affairs is for, then I am the Minister of Digital Affairs for breaking up digital monopolies .

Sounds good, but right under your nose the Polish Development Fund is working on the AI ​​Plan for Poland together with Google. How did that happen?

- There is no such "AI Plan for Poland".

Google says it's doing it.

- He can communicate whatever he wants, but it's not true. It's not Google that's involved in strategic thinking about Poland's development. If they want to invest in Poland, that's great, but it doesn't mean that in return the state will give up some of its sovereignty, for example in the area of ​​data management. It would be like handing over the management of the army to generals from other countries or private security companies - that's absurd.

But they are talking about government services in the areas of cybersecurity, health, and energy.

- So what do you mean they're talking? My idea is that Polish companies should be supported. I've met with representatives of Polish cloud companies that want to invest and they don't have any worse arguments than American corporations.

Polish business should be supported to participate in the strategic component of cloud services. Let's also remember that there is data that should not be kept outside Poland or Europe.

Does this mean there will be subsidies for Polish companies?

- It is enough that no one supports other companies, but there are equal rules, for example in tenders. Because Polish companies have good services that citizens and the administration can use.

So why haven't they won government contracts so far?

- I think this will change, because today there is more and more knowledge about the competitive advantage of cloud computing, the demand for it will be greater, for example in local governments. I want to say clearly that the Polish cloud business will have my support here.

PFR is also running a deep tech fund , which…

- I have already heard about various funds, and for now the only financial resources come from the coordination mechanism of the Artificial Intelligence Fund, which we created together with, among others, NCBR and BGK, NCN, MON and PFR. I also believe that in the end PFR will also develop good ideas that will put Poland's technological sovereignty first.

However, I was getting at the point that the Ministry of Finance is taking away your competences in digitalization. The deep tech fund is nothing more than your idea for the AI ​​Fund from the beginning of your term – it was supposed to be PLN 200 million.

- But we have introduced an artificial intelligence fund that supports projects directly investing in startups and their development. But as a mechanism for coordinating the spending of funds from various institutions, including the military. Thanks to cooperation with Minister Kosiniak-Kamysz, these funds will be coordinated with ours, which means greater coherence of actions, especially in the area of ​​investing in new resources, also in the area of ​​cybersecurity.

The Fund Council is already showing us how much cooperation can give even without additional money. Although it is hard to believe, until now not all AI financing programs have been mapped in Poland . Various institutions have not previously agreed on a common understanding of what artificial intelligence is for them - that is where we started.

Additionally, we are currently supporting NCBiR in updating the Infostrateg program, which is key for AI, BGK, COI and the Ministry of Digital Affairs have tightened their cooperation on a program for companies in the field of cloud, including artificial intelligence, while for scientists, together with the Ministry of Science, we obtained financing for the AI ​​Factory in Poznań .

So you admit that it was a failure turned into a PR success.

- The formula was changed after many months of talks in which I heard that if we announce a $50 million investment in AI, we will be treated outside like a small neighbor who does not think seriously about groundbreaking technology . That is why we did something that connects more institutions and makes up a budget of over PLN 1 billion.

I spoke about this at the AI ​​Summit in Paris during the advisory council with prime ministers of other countries and it was very well received. This amount also helps in negotiations related to EU projects.

What will Poland do to ensure that SMEs benefit from this money?

- Large investments are already starting, which will be financed by BGK. This money is for transformation related to the use of AI: replacing equipment, improving competences and audits of companies that will show how to use artificial intelligence in the company. People need to know what it can be useful for. Besides, we will set an example in the administration.

Meaning?

- By the end of this year, we will implement a chatbot in mObywatel – a citizen assistant, then we will implement AI in the administration. This solution is already being tested, I think it will be a great success. And by the way, it is also an example of left-wing thinking, with which we started our conversation. It could have been done earlier if we had decided to use ChatGPT, but we have focused on the Polish PLLuM model, i.e. digital sovereignty and responsibility. This is concern for Poland, because we will have full control over this process.

Just please remind me who gave funding to PLLuM.

- We did.

However, this was the idea of ​​the previous, right-wing government.

- First of all, it was not the government's idea, but the idea of ​​Polish scientists. Secondly, on December 24, 2023, Minister Dariusz Standerski came to me with information that there was no secured funding for it. Only then did we start looking for funds, and at the turn of March and February we finally decided that we would do it. PLLuM was promised by our predecessors, but there was no secured money for it.

At the beginning of this year, we also gave another subsidy for the implementation of the Polish language model in administration – PLN 19 million. Unfortunately, before everyone starts using it, we need to catch up in parallel: implement e-deliveries everywhere or the EZD RP system. On the other hand, small and medium-sized companies will also be able to use the model, because it is open, available to everyone. And this is just the beginning of the leftist agenda.

Yes?

- We also operate in the EU. We continue to block and oppose the CSAM regulation, which, in response to the problem of protecting children on the Internet, opened the way to viewing encrypted instant messengers.

As a presidency, we put on the table a proposal for a new approach – excluding preventive scanning of communicators. We are building an alliance around this proposal.

This is interesting, because at every meeting with the ministers of digitalization of other countries I ask if they know what this regulation involves. Some do not. I try to explain it so that everyone knows that we agree one hundred percent on protecting children from pornography and pedophilia. However, we do not agree to open every messenger.

And who is in this alliance now?

- Working talks are ongoing so we do not want to raise the public discussion at this stage. I am going to Brussels on April 30, I will talk about it.

But shouldn't the leftist mindset be protecting children?

- Yes, we are talking about preventing access to pornography, about age verification, about faster removal of paedophile content - the process of creating the appropriate law is underway, consultations are taking place. However, these are not easy processes either, until the situation in Poland calms down. Many topics from the digital agenda, which have united us so far, are now becoming political.

Or does the leftist agenda simply mean sympathy for China?

- Strange question. Why China?

The European Commission says it straight: exclude Huawei from critical infrastructure. The US administration wants to force the sale of TikTok to a domestic business. Australia bans the use of the Chinese DeepSeek model in administration. And the Polish Minister of Digital Affairs?

- In Poland, we are expanding the National Cybersecurity System (KSC). This is an act promoting hardware sovereignty, which is not aimed against anyone, but is intended to ensure that devices used in Poland are trustworthy and provide a guarantee that Polish data does not leak anywhere. KSC with all the elements necessary for it - like high-risk suppliers - will close these fields.

The introduction of this law is in Poland's interest. If someone is against the KSC in the edition we are making, I believe they are committing digital high treason. We need to speak out about it strongly.

And when will the KSC be adopted?

- I believe that he will appear in the government in the current quarter.

And this version is already supported by all ministers?

- No, many ministers keep making comments that there should be no high-risk suppliers in this project. I believe that such a solution must be there, because it is a guarantee of Poland's security.

So you have digital traitors in the government.

- We have people who send such things and I completely disagree with that, because I think that this is not an action towards building the Polish raison d'état.

Mr. Prime Minister, who for example?

- I believe that the comments will be resolved by the time of the government meeting and the bill will be passed. I will insist on this, because as the plenipotentiary for cybersecurity I see more broadly than just the business perspective. I see threats from the Russian-Belarusian side, from Asian directions and I feel responsible for securing Polish infrastructure against them.

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What about the semiconductor limits that the Biden administration has imposed on us? Is the Polish government negotiating a change in this area?

- The American administration is conducting consultations on this matter until mid-May. So far, we have sent all the information they expected. I hope that the Trump administration will change its mind and move Poland from Tier 2 to Tier 1.

All information, what is it?

- Arguments why we believe that Poland should be in the group of countries number one, without limits on semiconductors.

And why?

- Because it is a safe country, because there is no trade in processors that are sold abroad. We have really safe laws and strict export control conditions that are prepared for transatlantic cooperation. We are a reliable partner because we buy a lot of American equipment. All these things were presented to the American side very objectively. Will President Trump change his decision - I will know more after his visit to the United States in May.

There is strong lobbying in the US to shift the baskets, but on the condition that countries adopt AI on American terms .

- There will be no AI adoption in Poland on American terms. I met with NVIDIA representatives, who supply equipment to the European Union, for example, for our supercomputers. I said that for Poland, being in the basket of countries with semiconductor limits is a very uncomfortable position, which means that we will have to think about obtaining these processors in Poland from other countries. I believe that companies such as NVIDIA are also lobbying the US administration, but supporting us.

And how many GPUs do we need in Poland?

- This year we need less than the limits give us, but that does not mean that we will feel good within these limits. They may affect, for example, delays in deliveries , they may affect the location of foreign investments in Poland.

It's not about the limits themselves, but about treating us as a reliable partner. We are such a partner, especially in the area of ​​cybersecurity, and this is a key element of transatlantic cooperation today.

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